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geraldwgood
(@geraldwgood)
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23/06/2019 4:41 pm  

Hello all! Hopefully someone can help me.   I got the EME the other day and I have to say it’s been great for working with linking and editing patterns much faster.    

However today I tried a couple midi features and one of them is not working right.    When I use a Ableton as the master clock; sending clock over midi to the Eloquencer; the Eloquencer starts up and resets properly all nice and tight but then after a few bars the tempo on the Eloquencer starts to drift away like a bad DJ who gets the tempo of the next record close enough and drops in on beat one but then the second record falls behind.

is this why the nudge feature is there?

to fix bad timing? 

 

PleSe HELP!!!


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WinterModular
(@wintermodular)
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23/06/2019 5:13 pm  

Hi Gerald !

No ! DJ nudge is there to sync with non-clocked sources or to unsync (on purpose). Clock should be tight as hell.

A couple of users using a specific sound card have encountered problems like yours. What sound card / interface are you using?

 


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geraldwgood
(@geraldwgood)
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23/06/2019 11:35 pm  

Motu 828es


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geraldwgood
(@geraldwgood)
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23/06/2019 11:37 pm  

I did find that if I set to “internal”

and put the tempo to match Ableton the transport and reset work and they stay in time and only need a “nudge” after several mins.

its on “midi clk” I had issue.  Friends have told me Ableton is the issue.

 Ableton has a shit midi clock 


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WinterModular
(@wintermodular)
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24/06/2019 11:57 am  

I have been doing all the DAW>EME tests with Ableton and it is really tight and synced with EME and Eloquencer. I'm not sure Ableton is the problem.

One of the users that had this problem had a MOTU 16A. He passed the MIDI signal through Doepfer Midi 2 CV and he solved the problem, so it seems that there is something in the electronics level. Our circuit follows the MIDI association standards, and I'm sure MOTU circuit follows the standard too. We are investigating this incompatibility.
Keep you updated


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geraldwgood
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24/06/2019 1:42 pm  

prior to having the EME when i wanted to sync the modular to Live i was using the Erica Synths midi <>clock v2 to sync the eloquencer with my DAW.  it was bang on tight once i adjusted for latency in live (that shows that its not my interface causing the issue since that took midi clock just fine).  there was no sense of drift where the eloquencer seemed to be playing back at a slower tempo like not reading the clock properly or some of the skipping of beats or whatever.  seems like a firmware issue.  and i don't think i should have to run the midi thru another module then into the EME.. it defeats the point.  for the time being i will use my work around (run it on internal with the tempo set manually to match my ableton session.  but let the midi cable into the EME handle transport and reset... this seems to actually work).

 


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geraldwgood
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24/06/2019 1:45 pm  

*** part of the EME is supposed to make it so we don't need another module to handle sync.  why would other midi to clock modules work but the EME doesn't?  if i have to use one midi to clock module to sync .. it kinda makes the EME  a 6hp blank plate since half of its intended function doesn't work


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davidjames
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24/06/2019 6:00 pm  
Posted by: geraldwgood

*** part of the EME is supposed to make it so we don't need another module to handle sync.  why would other midi to clock modules work but the EME doesn't?  if i have to use one midi to clock module to sync .. it kinda makes the EME  a 6hp blank plate since half of its intended function doesn't work

I think what @wintermodular is saying is simply that they've isolated the issue to the electronics by way of someone validating that a Doepfer Midi to CV module works well with his/her Ableton setup.  This is common product troubleshooting process, eliminate variables until you isolate the issue.  I don't think the intent was to offer this to you as a workaround.


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geraldwgood
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24/06/2019 7:06 pm  

Agree.  WM has been super responsive and involved with its users to make this the best sequencer around 


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WinterModular
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25/06/2019 7:59 am  

Hi guys !

Yes, exactly. The thing is I'm not saying the problem is the audio interface, I'm not saying you need to put an Doepfer MIDI to CV in the middle. I'm just trying to be transparent and explaining the situation. Both devices work perfectly separate (certain interface and the EME), but when they work together some messages disappear. I think at this point that there is some kind of electronics incompatibility, but I'm not sure yet. As @davidjames mentioned, we are trying to isolate the problem. In that case my mention to put the Doepfer MIDI to CV in the middle was a test that could confirm that there's no firmware problem.


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WinterModular
(@wintermodular)
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10/07/2019 5:00 pm  

Hi @geraldwgood and others!
We have had some reports on users losing sync from DAW to EME/Eloquencer. It seems some MIDI messages get lost.
All the cases reported were related with specific models from MOTU or RME (we have reports on MOTU 828ES (2 cases), MOTU 16A (1), RME Babyface (1),RME Fireface(1)). All other MIDI devices or audio interfaces that have been tested with EME seem to work fine. All the DAW tests while programming the EME have been done with a MOTU Ultralite MK4 and everything worked smooth.
The MIDI signal from those audio interfaces that is sent to the EME seems to work fine on other devices.
Taking the DAW MIDI signal, passing through another device (DAW >> DEVICE MIDI in // DEVICE MIDI out >>  EME MIDI in) the signal reception was fine, and no MIDI message was lost.
We have acquired a MOTU 828ES and do some tests, and the same problem appears. We started doing some tests on the MOTU audio interface and analyzed the MIDI signal and we found out some baud rate inconsistencies. Variation of baud rate, different timing and different bit durations for HIGH symbol (1) and LOW symbol (0) with variations out of the 31250kpbs (-/+1%) MIDI standard.
So the hypothesis is: EME is not compatible with devices that are far away from the 31250(-/+1%) baud rate specification. Other MIDI devices are less sensible to that baud rate variations so they can decode that MIDI stream, even if that stream is out of the MIDI specification.
The easy answer here is: "ok it is not our fault, we comply with MIDI standard". We don't want the quick/easy answer, and we need to find out a solution for those users that have Eloquencer+EME and those audio interfaces. We are currently working on a solution that improves the EME ability to decode MIDI signals that are out of the specifications, and it seems that we are starting to have some successful results. We have had the combo MOTU 828es + EME/ELO running for one day with no single MIDI message drop.
If you have ELO+EME and one of these interfaces ( MOTU 16A, MOTU 828ES or RME babyface, RME fireface) please contact us at support@winter-modular.com and we will contact you as soon as we have a definitive solution.


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